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Wednesday, August 26, 2020

Baron William de Say & Lady Sibyl ?

 121691152. Baron William de Say & 121691153. Lady Sibyl ?

~1208, William born in England, s/o 19989834. Geoffrey de Say.

10/28/1216, Henry III, age 9, crowned king of England.

~1230, Sibyl born in England.

8/19/1230, William’s father died. William of age, in service beyond the seas.

9/20/1230, Upon the death of Geoffrey de Say, the king took the homage of William de Say, his son and heir, for all that Geoffrey held of the king in chief. (S) FRsHIII.

12/17/1233, Pledges for the Bishop of Exeter having the custody of the land and heir of W. d’Avranches: Earl Roger Bigod for 100 m. … William de Ros for 40 m. William de Say for 40 m. … Upon the barony of the same bishop, 300 m., by the king. (S) FRsHIII.

12/5/1235, William leased the castle of Grenewiz, co. Kent, to Katherine, widow of Henry de Edelmeton for 13 years. (S) CPRs.

1237, William de Say granted fishing rights in Hamsey to Earl Warenne. (S) Hist. of Sussex, V7, 1940, Hamsey.

9/25/1237 at York, By treaty, Alexander II of Scotland asserted to King Henry of England that he was owed Northumberland as dowry of Joanna. King Henry acknowledge a grant of Tynedale in Northumberland, as well as the Earldom of Chester. … witness … W. de Say … (S) POMS.

5/28/1238, Protection for William de Say going on pilgrimage beyond the seas. (S) CPRs.

4/7/1242, Protection for William de Say going beyond the seas with the King. (S) CPRs.

5/20/1242, Hugh X de Lusignan and his step-son King Henry III arrived at Royen, France with a small contingent; but with 30 tons of gold. They were soon joined by French nobles with Hugh as their leader against the forces of the Count of Poitou and King Louis IX.

7/22/1242, The 2 armies met at the battles of Taillebourgh and Saintes. At the battle of Saintonge, William de Say took John de Barres and 6 other knights prisoner. They were afterwards exchanged for English prisoners. (S) Matthew Paris’s English History, V1, 1889, P422. [The superior sized French force won the battle.]

9/27/1242, King Henry returned to England arriving at Portsmouth.

1242-43, William de Say was holding 14 knights' fees of the manor of Hamsey. (S) Hist. of Sussex, V7, 1940, Hamsey.

1244, William de Say, and Richard, prior of Holy Trinity, London. Land in Edelmeton. (S) Feet of Fines for London and Middlesex, V1, 1892, no.220.

8/14/1244, William’s wife given 3 deer by the King.

6/11/1245, William de Say going to Wales on the King’s business exempted from suits of counties and hundreds and from all pleas, so long as he is in those parts. (S) CPRs.

1246, William de Say was granted a weekly market on Tuesdays at Great Linton and a 3-day fair at St. Lawrence's feast (9–11 August). (S) Hist. of Cambridge and Isle of Ely, V6, 1978, Linton.

10/14/1246, Bond by Geoffrey de Say, brother of William de Say, to Aaron son of Abraham, the Jew, for £30 (S) UKNA.

8/12/1247, For Hugh Peche and Ida de Seagrave [Ida is Maud’s sister]. Hugh Peche and Ida, his wife, who was the wife of Stephen of Seagrave, have made fine with the king by £500 for the trespass that Hugh made in abducting (rapiendo) the aforesaid Ida, …. The pledges for the said £500 are Gilbert Peche for £100, William de Say for £100 and Phillip Darcy for £100. (S) FRsHIII.

3/20/1248, Grant to the prior and convent of Norwich … witnessed by William de Say. (S) Royal Charter Witness Lists, 2001, P28.

4/23/1249, Inspeximus … Roger de Gyneses … Witnesses, Sir Peter de Sabaudia, … Sir Bertram de Crioll, … Sir William de Say and Sir Goeffrey de Lucy, … (S) CChRs.

1250, William given 2 deer by the King.

3/19/1252, Grant for William de Say, for life, that he may freely hunt the wolf, the hare, the fox, the cat, and the otter without nets in the water through all the king’s forests and rivers on this side of Trent, provided that he take none of the king’s deer. (S) CChRs.

[––William & Sibyl––]

By 1252, William married Sibyl. [Likely his 2nd wife.]

5/30/1253, Protection for William de Say going to Gascony with the King. (S) CPRs.

8/6/1253, King Henry left for Gascony from Portsmouth with 300 ships.

12/20/1253 at Bazas, France [east of Bordeaux], Charter to Robert Walerand … Witnesses:- … Humphrey de Boun, earl of Hereford and Essex, John de Plessetis, earl of Warwick, Roger de Sumery, John de Burgo, John Haunsard, William de Say … (S) CPRs.

3/19/1254, Henry’s army in camp at Meilhan, France [south of Bordeaux, near the Spanish border].

5/1254, William de Say with Earl Roger Bigod and others given permission by the king to follow after Simon, earl of Leicester in France [Seneschal of Gascony]. (S) Matthew Paris’s English History, 1854, P77.

8/12/1254, Henry’s retinue in camp at Bordeaux, then at Orleans, France.

1/1255, King Henry returned to England.

1255, William de Say summoned to a great Council at Westminster. (S) Battle Abbey Roll.

5/1255, William de Say acquits the Prior and Convent of Cumbwell of all suit of court … (S) Archaeologia Cantiana, V5, Kent Arch. Soc., 1863, P220.

2/10/1258, Inspeximus … brother Andrew, prior of St. Swithuns, Winchester … witnesses, Roger le Bigod, earl of Norfolk and marshal of England, Roger de Quency, earl of Winchester, Humphrey de Bohun, earl of Hereford, William de Fortibus, count of Aumale, Hugh le Bigod, chief justiciar of England, John son of Geoffrey, William de Say, … (S) CChRs.

1259, William de Say made governor of Rochester castle. (S) History of the County of Kent, Dunkin, 1855, P28.

5/19/1260, Appointment by the counsel of magnates, of William de Say to keep the castle of Roucestre; John de Cobbeham to deliver the castle to him. (S) CPRs.

12/4/1260, Licence for William de Say to enclose his wood of Hanger within the forest of Pambere with a hedge and ditch to make a park of it. (S) CPRs.

5/12/1261, Pardon at the instance of William de Say to Ralph de Nigun for the death of Roger de Corpesty and Robert Toly. (S) CPRs.

10/17/1263, William de Say [one of many] to come to the king at Wyndesor with the horses and arms … (S) CPRs.


~1264, William married 2nd Mary ? (4997385).

5/14/1264, William supported King Henry, who was captured by Simon de Montfort, at the battle of Lewes. Simon de Montfort became effective ruler of England. William, the Earl Warrenne, and others fled to Pevensey castle, and from their to the continent.

1265, William de Say granted a rent to Walden abbey (Essex). (S) Hist. of Cambridge and Isle of Ely, V6, 1978, Linton.

8/4/1265, Lord Edward defeated and killed Simon de Montfort at the battle of Evesham, ending the barons’ revolt.

8/8/1265, William surrendered the county of Kent to Roger de Leybourne. (S) CPRs.

4/2/1266, Safe conduct at the instance of G. de Clare, earl of Glouceser, and William de Say, for Hugh Peche and Robert and Thomas his brothers in coming to the king’s court to treat of their peace. (S) CPRs.

6/19/1266, Grant, at the instance of William de Say, to John le Mareschal and William his brother, sons of William le Mareshcan, deceased, minors, that if they can purchase to themselves … lands … of Alina le Mareschal … their grandmother … (S) CPRs.

11/20/1267, William de Say granted the marriage of John le Marescall heir of Alina le Marescall lately deceased, or of William brother of the said John. (S) CPRs.

1/30/1268, William de Say has letters of the king to conduct Robert Peche to the king’s court to treat for peace. (S) CPRs.

1271, William, Knt., of West Greenwich, co. Kent died. [Mary remarried to Robert de Ufford (60845680). (S) CFRs, 5/12/1273.]

2/12/1272, IPM of William de Say. William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir. Norfolk: Strattun (manor) … Kent: Burgham manor … held of the king by barony … he ought to maintain part of the bridge of Rochester, and a certain house in the castle of Dover. Codham manor … Westgernewich manor … by barony … Berlinges manor … by barony … Sussex: Strete manor … Hammes manor … Hertford: Sabritteswrth manor … Cambridge: Lintone manor … Middlesex: Edelmeton manor … The age of the heir is unknown to the jury, but he was in his mother's womb at the hour when the king went into Gascony. (S) CIsPM.

(S) Magna Carta Ancestry, P727.

Family notes:

·         There are contemporary multiple persons named ‘William de Say’ in various counties.

Children of William and Sibyl: [1 son, 2 daughters]

i. William de Say (60845576), born 11/20/1253 in England.

ii. Sibyl de Say (30424233), born ~1260 in England.

[First name unknown, assumed from mother’s name.]

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