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Monday, September 7, 2020

Baron Geoffrey de Say & Lady Alice de Vere

 39979668. Baron Geoffrey de Say & 39979669. Lady Alice de Vere

~1145, Geoffrey born in England, s/o 79959336. William de Say & 79959337. Beatrix de Mandeville.

~1151, Alice born in England, d/o 189118256. Earl Aubrey de Vere & 79959339. Euphemia de Cantelupe.

By 1154, Alice’s mother died.


Alice 1st married to Hugh de Periers. [See 3/1181.]

12/19/1154, Henry II, s/o Empress Matilda, succeeded King Stephen of England.

[––Geoffrey & Alice––]

~1169, Geoffrey married 2nd Alice, eldest d/o the Earl of Oxford by his 2nd wife.

1175-79 at Westminster, Simon de Beauchamp (19989836) and Geoffrey de Sai witnesses of a charter of King Henry to St. Bartholomew’s priory. (S) Rec’s of St. Bartholomew’s Priory, V1, 1921.

1177, Geoffrey’s older brother William died. (S) Hist. of Middlesex, V5, 1976, Edmonton.

Aft. 1178, William, earl of Essex, gives to Adilicia of Essex (39979821), his mother’s sister, in free dower, the town of Aincho, over and above lands given to her in dower [in 1178] by Roger fitz Richard, her lord. Witnesses: Roesia Comitissa (756473353), Simon de Beauchamp (19989836), Geoffrey de Say (39979668), Geoffrey and William de Vere [brothers of Adilicia] … (S) Transactions of the Essex Archaeological Society, 1889, P245.

1180, Geoffrey de Say and his wife ‘Adeliza’ made an agreement with the priory of Wenlock. (S) Court, Household, and Itinerary of King Henry II, Eyton, 1878, P238.

1180, Geoffrey acquitted in respect of a liability of 10s for the land which he had with the wife of Hugh de Periers. (S) Antiquities of Shropshire, V3, Eyton, 1856, P333.

3/1181 at Ivry, Robert de Stuteville (189129294) signed a ratification to Wenlock Priory, made in 1180, between Geoffrey de Say and his wife Adeliza, widow of Hugh de Periers, and the priory. (S) CH&I,HII; P239.

11/14/1189, Beatrice de Say’s nephew William de Mandeville, earl of Essex, died without heirs. Beatrice (79959337), of an elderly age, his heir. Her son Geoffrey allowed to occupy her place in view of her age. (S) FMG. (S) Environs of London, V2, Middlesex, 1795, Edmonton. [Geoffrey received Edmonton, and his niece Beatrice, d/o his older brother, given Enfield. (S) Hist. of Middlesex, V5, 1976, Edmonton.]

By 12/5/1189, Beatrice and her uncle Geoffrey de Say were the heirs [‘both of the same stock’], for a fine of 7000 marks. [Beatrice d/o William de Say of Kimbolton, Huntingdonshire; and Saham, Norfolk.]

By 1189 at Windsor, Simon de Beauchamp (19989836) and Geoffrey de Sai witnessed another charter of King Henry II to to St. Bartholomew’s priory. (S) Rec’s of St. Bartholomew’s Priory, V1, 1921. [24 charters chronologically after the 1175-79 charter.]

1189-99, Grant by Geoffrey de Say, son of Willian de Say, to Robert Selvein his servant of half a virgate of land in Edelmetun … (S) UKNA.

1190, Michael Belet accounted for 100 librates [$ of Anjou] to have right against him of the inheritance of his 1st wife and to have his office.

11/23/1191, By writ of King Richard, Geoffrey [who could not pay] turned the barony over to William Longchamp.

1193, Geoffrey de Sai sailed from England to visit King Richard I in captivity in Germany. (S) The Athenaium, V1, 1895, P498.

12/26/1194, Alice’s father died, her younger half-brother succeeding their father.

1196-98, Grant by Geoffrey de Say son of William de Say, to Geoffrey de Say, his son, of the manor of Rikeling, Esssex.  Witnesses:—Walter, archbishop of Rouen, Hubert, archbishop of Canterbury, … Albric de Ver [Alice’s brother, not yet holding the title of Earl], … (S) Ancient Deeds, V3, 1900, C.3188.

1197-98, Alice died.


8/10/1197-3/8/1198, Charter of confirmation by Geoffrey de Say [the elder], son of Geoffrey Say (39979668), son of William de Say (79959336) of a grant of the manor of Rikeling made by his said father to Geoffrey de Say (19989834), his own younger brother, whom his father had by Alice de Ver on the petition of William de Say his eldest brother [of 39979668]. (S) FMG. (S) UKNA.

1204, Order issued to take the lands of Geoffrey de Say into the French King's demesne.

1206, Geoffry de Say a pledge for Gerard de Furnival (756483552).

1212, Geoffry de Say brought suit for the barony of Mandeville.

2/1214, King John landed at La Rochelle, France in an expedition into Poitou. [The list of barons in the next record either went with, or sent support with King John. (S) Scotland, England and France, Pollock, 2015, P73.]

6/15/1214, Baronial supporters of the Charter of Liberties (Magna Carta) included John de Lacy constable of Chester, Richard de Munfichet, William de Mandeville, William de Beauchamp of Bedford, the sons of Saher de Quincy, Robert de Ros, William de Huntingfeld, Geoffrey de Sai, William Malet, William de Lanvalay, Fulk fitz Warin, Maurice de Gant, John fitz Robert,  Nicholas de Stuteville and Thomas de Moulton.

6/19/1215 at Runnymede near Windsor, King John forced to agree to the terms of the Magna Carta.

7/1214, Geoffrey de Say [the father] seeks a writ against Geoffrey de Mandeville, claiming the loss of the barony on a technicality, offered 15,000 marks for the recognition that he had been disseized ‘voluntarie.’

1214, Geoffrey, of Edmonton, Middlesex; and Sawbridgeworth, Herefordshire, died. (S) His son Geoffrey the younger made a fine to possess his lands in Sussex and Middlesex.

(S) Judges & Common Law, Turner, 2003, P296ff. (S) HSJ, V10, 2001, P168.

Child of Geoffrey and ? de Peries:

i. Geoffrey de Say [the elder], born ~1165 in England

Geoffrey married Alice de Cheyne.

By 1198, Alice died.

1/1/1198, Geoffrey (son) and his father, Geoffrey de Say the elder – son of William de Say, made a grant to the hospital of Drincourt [donated the wood of ‘Pirariis’], providing for prayers for the soul of Alice de Cheyne, mother of the younger Geoffrey.

1210-12, Galfridus de Say junior holding 7 knights’ fees de honore Patricii in Kent. (S) FMG.

Son: Geoffrey de Say. [Undated] Grant by Geoffrey de Say, son of Alice de Chetnay, to Robert Silvan of land in Edelmeton … (S) UKNA. [See 1189-99 record of the father.]

Child of Geoffrey and Alice:

ii. Geoffrey de Say (19989834), born ~1170 in England.

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