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Tuesday, September 1, 2020

Baron William de Say & Lady Elizabeth ?

 60845576. Baron William de Say & 60845577. Lady Elizabeth ?

11/20/1253, William born in England, heir & s/o 121691152. William de Say & 121691153. Sibyl ?.

~1260, Elizabeth born in England.

1271, William’s father died.

2/12/1272, IPM of William de Say. William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir. Norfolk: … Kent: … held of the king by barony … by barony … by barony … Sussex: … Hertford … Cambridge: … … Middlesex: … The age of the heir is unknown to the jury, but he was in his mother's womb at the hour when the king went into Gascony. (S) CIsPM. [Important manors for records: Hammes, Sussex; Lintone, Cambridge; Edlemeton, Middlesex.]

11/16/1272, Edward I ascended to the throne while on crusade.

9/20/1273, To the Sheriffs of Middlesex. William de Say, son and heir of William de Say, has shown the king  that the late king demised to Poncius de la More the lands belonging to William, a minor in his wardship, and William bought the custody and is still underage, and he will be of full age in a year from St. Edmund next, … the king orders the sheriffs to desist from distraining William for his ancestors’ debts. (S) CCRs.

10/10/1273, Pledges for Richard de la Vache … William son of William de Say of co. Essex … (S) CCRs.

1274, Sir William de Say, enfeoffed thereof by charter Alexander de Cheny and Agnes his wife with the manor of Patrikesburn, Kent, except the knights’ fees. (S) IPM of Alexander de Cheny, 6/11/1296.

6/1277, William fought in Wales. King Edward was in Chester where he cleared a road through a dense forest, and started construction on the castles of Flint and Rhuddlan. King Edward made forays into the Welsh lands of Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, prince of Wales, capturing Snowdonia and the isle of Anglesey. (S) English Aristocracy at War, Simpkin, 2008, P11.

4/20/1279, Amice de Say … owes … 350 marks … pledges to wit, John le Mareschal, William de Say, … (S) CCRs.

1279, William de Say owned 2 water-mills in Linton. William exploited his charter for a market by granting out plots in the village in free burgage. There  were 48 such shops, whose owners included 4 mercers, 2 bakers, 2 potters, a smith, a skinner, a barker, a barber, a tailor, and Adam Caiaphas [likely a Jewish money lender]. (S) Hist. of Cambridge and Isle of Ely, V6, 1978, Linton.

[––William & Elizabeth––]

By 1280, William married Elizabeth.

6/4/1280, William de Say a surety for John le Mareschal who owed 1000 marks. (S) CCRs.

10/21/1280 in London, Letter of William, son of William de Say, notification of a grant to William de la Forde. (S) Calendar of the Cartularies of John Pyel, 1993.

6/27/1282, William de Say acknowledges that he owes to Peter de Huntingefeld 50 marks; to be levied, in default of payment, of his lands and chattels in co. Kent. (S) CCRs. [William borrowed another £10 the next month.]

10/13/1282, Enrolment of release by John son of John de Lodney to Roger Bygod, earl of Norfolk, … Witnesses : Sir John de Wallibus, Sir Peter de Monte Forti, Sir William de Say, Sir Nicholas de Stoteville, Sir Roger de Hales, … knights, … (S) CCRs.

1282, William fought in Wales. King Edward left for a Wales expedition taking Queen Eleanor and daughter Eleanor. Edward set up residence at Rhudlan castle, Flintshire.

12/1282, King Edward defeated Llewelyn ap Gruffydd at the battle of Radnor in eastern Wales.

1283, King Edward continued his Welsh campaign, capturing Dafydd, brother of Llewelyn; completing the conquest of Wales.

6/28/1283, William de Say summoned to Shrewsbury by writ from Rhuddlan to the king to hold a colloquium to ordain what should be done with David, brother of Llewellyn, formerly prince of Wales. (S) The Titular Barony of Clavering, 1891, P16.

1284, William de Say, lord of Edmonton, surrendered timber and herbage rights in Enfield park in return for 20 cartloads of brushwood a year from the chase of Enfield. (S) History of the County of Middlesex, V5, 1976, P158.

3/15/1286, IPM of Sir Robert de Aguylon: … Edmonton, com. Midd. … 9 acres of meadow … held of William de Say … (S) Pubs.: Camden Series, V33, 2012, P71.

6/28/1289, William de Say, knight, and Alexander de Thaney, knight, acknowledge that they owe Edmund the king’s brother 100 marks to be levied, in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in cos. Middlesex, Suffolk and Essex. (S) CCRs.

1290, William de Say granted Great Linton to John Northwood (11820464), a Kent landowner, for life with remainder to Northwood's son John (5910232). (S) Hist. of Cambridge and Isle of Ely, V6, 1978, Linton.

1292, The wardship of Roger, son of Adam de Bavent of Sussex, disputed between William de Say and the King. (S) Battle Abbey Roll, V1, P108.

6/28/1292, IPM of Margaret de Rypariis. Hertford: Pyshoo. The manor held in dower by the death of Baldwin de Insula sometime her husband, who held of Sir William de Say in chief by service by 3 3/4 knights’ fees. (S) CIsPM.

6/14/1293, Writ to William de Say to attend the king at Portsmouth in the first of September with horse and arms to proceed for the defence of Gascony against the king of France. (S) History of the County of Kent, Dunkin, 1855, P31.

6/8/1294, William summoned to parliament.

11/1294, The jurors say William de say claimed to have view of frankpledge, the exaction of compensation for breaking the assize of bread and ale, … in the Half-hundred of Edmonton. (S) Calendar of the Cartularies of John Pyel, 1993, P431.

1295, William de Say died. (S) UKNA.


9/16/1295, IPM of William de Say. Kent: Birlinge. The manor, including a park, and rents …, held of the king in chief by barony. Geoffrey his son, aged 14, is his next heir. The manor of Westgrenewych held of the king in chief by barony. Burgham. The manor, … held of the king in chief by barony. Codham. The manor … held of the king in chief by barony. Sussex: Hammes. The manor … Hertford: Sabritteswrth. The manor … Middlesex: Edelmeton. The manor, including a warren …  for a third part whereof there are assigned to Elizabeth late his wife, the manor of Codeham, co. Kent, with the park, the manor of Hammes, co. Sussex, and £12 12s 9d of land &c. in the manor of Berling, co. Kent. (S) CIsPM.

1295, Thomas de Caumvile; Eve, wife of Thomas de Caumvile. The Caumviles show that they have sued … against the executors of William de Say for a substantial debt for … aggrieved and put to great cost because Elizabeth de Say, an executrix of Say will not come. (S) UKNA.

10/20/1295, Order to deliver to Elizabeth, late the wife of William de Say, the manor of Codeham, co. Kent … Hammes, co. Sussex, … Berling, co. Kent, which the king has assigned in dower. (S) CCRs.

7/7/1297, Elizabeth living.

1/13/1299, Elizabeth, late the wife of William de Say, acknowledges that she owes to William de Hamelton, clerk, £40; to be levied, in default of payment, of his lands and chattels in cos. Kent and Sussex. (S) CCRs.

9/29/1299 at London, Debtor: Elizabeth de Say, once the wife of William de Say, and Ellis de Hertford. Amount: £100. (S) UKNA.

7/10/1301, Whereas the king lately granted to William de Valencia, his uncle … saving to Elizabeth, late the wife of William de Say, her dower … (S) CCRs.

Elizabeth died.

(S) Magna Carta Ancestry, P728. (S) Hist. of Middlesex, V5, 1976, Edmonton.

Family notes:

·         There are multiple ‘William de Say’s contemporary in other counties. Some unspecifiable records are likely mixed.

Child of William and Elizabeth:

i. Geoffrey de Say (30422788), born 1281 in England.

2/15/1303, Order to cause Geoffrey de Say, son and heir of William de Say, tenant in chief, to have seisin of the lands whereof his father was seised at his death in his demesne as of fee, as he has proved his age before the king. (S) CCRs.

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